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07:56 29-10-2011Spugpow
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I'd also be interested to see such an article (if you wanted to write it, of course
).
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17:21 28-10-2011Jan
- I must confess that I am completely lost in the nomenclature of furahan fishes. Will there be only a brief article about the taxonomic tree of furahan animals, at least those we know about?
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03:51 26-10-2011Spugpow
- I did mean that the hypothetical creature refills its water supply in the air. I didn't mean to imply continuous jetting though; The way I see it, an advanced flying squid would lower its proboscis into the sea and fill its mantle cavity when it reached a certain height, then use this water to propel itself in another burst before it got low enough to refill again. Of course, these creatures probably wouldn't spend a lot of time flying.
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21:43 25-10-2011William Stephens
- This may have been mentioned before, but what do you think of tree-like faunal organisms that have elecroplaques throughout it's 'body' (trunk) with a sort of ball-like structure of branches at the top, which it would use to fire electrical impulses to the top of the trees next to it, as if communicating? The ball structure would resemble the dendron of a synapse, while a fungus would form several 'coats' on the trunk - similar to a myelin sheath.
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09:37 25-10-2011Jan
- Thank you.
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01:45 25-10-2011Evan Black
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I've written a blog post of my own about the number of ecological niches in a "complete" speculative project because I had to say so much that I didn't want to overwhelm this message board. Here is a link:
http://projectnereus.blogspot.com/2011/10/when-is-enough-enough.html
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22:14 24-10-2011SN
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Spugpow, I suppose that a life form that leaves the water by jetting would be able to replenish its water supply with a kind of tube, but I cannot see it doing so while flying, but perhaps you did not mean that. The tube would slow the creature down, and 'continuous jetting; seems rather unlikely.
William, I have the DVDs, a book and even a manga of 'The Future is Wild' (http://planetfuraha.blogspot.com/2010/02/future-is-wild-and-it-is-manga.html). So I know about 'flish'. But no-one in the thread below claimed this to be an original idea. The point I tried to make was not that there is anything against having sea creatures leave the water for a spell (after all, some fish and some squids do so on Earth) but it is not clear to me which factors might drive their evolution towards protracted flight: what are the advantages in that? I just checked my book of TFIW, and it does not contain an answer to that specific question.
Jan, interesting idea. Sofar I have not thought about seagoing spidrids or tetropters. I will have to let the idea ferment for a while.
As for how many niches, biotopes or species you would need, I have no firm idea. It probably depends on what you wish to present. For a website you probably need fewer than for a book, and if your world is to be the background for a story, probably even fewer. In my case I simply want to have enough images for a nice satisfying book, which probably boils down to only 100 species. Perhaps Evan has a better answer, as I think he set himself the goal of developing a fixed number of species for Nereus.
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10:31 24-10-2011Jan
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Just a question, have the spidrids and radial flies some water forms? No insect on Earth uses its wings for swimming (as penguins do) but it is not so unimaginable, is it?
Btw, according to your opinions, how many niches (I could not found better word) should be considered to essential for every "complete" fictional world?
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20:26 23-10-2011William Stephens
- Reading this ... flying fish? PLEASE tell me you've heard of The Future Is Wild. Have a look http://www.thefutureiswild.com/index.asp?level1id=3&level2id=8&level3id=12&level4id=39&level5id=39. Also http://www.thefutureiswild.com/index.asp?level1id=3&level2id=8&level3id=12&level4id=38&level5id=38. You can watch the entire series on youtube or buy the dvd boxset (although YouTube is cheaper). The program discusses life millions of years in the future, and also brings back memories of the squibbon
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17:55 23-10-2011Spugpow
- Hmm... some larval Cephalopods have the two lower tentacles fused to form a proboscis. Could a flying species retain this into adulthood and use it to replenish it's water supply in the air?
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16:30 23-10-2011SN
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Concerning the evolution of flying forms from 'fish', I think Jan has a point. While fish may take flight for a few moments to escape predators, there should be a good reason to drive evolution towards flight from that point on. If a predator simply follows you into the air, that might be just the incentive needed. Of course, you immediately start wondering whether it pays for the predator as well as for the prey: if there are easier fish to catch in the water, then there is little gain.
I agree that metabolism is probably not the most important factor to stop flight from taking off (sorry...) but what advantage is there in soaring? Speed in air is higher than in water, so a need for speed might help, or perhaps the ability to dive down on an unsuspecting prey from above?
Finally, the squid I discussed in the blog a few weeks ago take a limited amount of water along with them into the air. Beings using this approach might use it to get themselves aloft, but not to stay there. The 'jetpack' you refer to has a hose sucking in water continuously (if that is the one you meant as well), but that seems very unlikely for life forms.
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04:06 22-10-2011Mexanik
- And what do you think about a flying tubeshark? %) I heared about jetpack that uses water instead of fire, maybe some creature could evolve in similar way?
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06:56 21-10-2011Spugpow
- Metabolism might not be such a limitation. To me, the most logical way for a fish to evolve into an aerial creature is to become a dynamic soarer, like the albatross. Albatrosses are famous for barely flapping their wings during flight, making use of updrafts coming off waves to stay aloft.
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09:33 20-10-2011Jan
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What about coevolution of predators and their prey?
I think that the main limitation for true fishes is their metabolism (and height of the insulation for swimming homeotherms) but it could be solved on other planets.
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21:51 19-10-2011Sig. Nastr., esq.
- Mexanik: I guess so. Look at flying fish. In their case, there clearly was an evolutionary advantage in getting away from predators by soaring, at least good enough to spur the development of long fins that are probably more use in the air than in the sea. But to get from that point to a mainly flying animal would probably require a new evolutionary advantage other than being able to disappear from -underwater- sight for a short while. What would that new evolutionary 'aim' be? Find one, and you have a good case...